Am worried over Chance

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Am worried over Chance

Post by ella on Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:24 pm

Obviously we don't know Chance's true age, so we just have a guesstimation given to us making him 4, but since having him we've found he has an old injury in his left hind leg - he never goes lame and no outward sign of anything but he's fallen on the bed/sofa when he's been asleep  rolling eyes landed on his leg and screamed, had Radley run into it same thing... it was checked over at the vets who just did the same thing i did - checked the movement in it, felt for any lumps or bumps and said that he'd need it xraying to take it any further but didn't recommend it, as the stress on him mentally would be worse especially when he's never even limped.

I know ambulls are prone to HD so that's playing on my mind, but i think it's more likely to be arthritis in his hip, but i annoyingly ran out of turmeric (hippy mum alert) which i give Chance everyday, good job he loves it! and the next day he wasn't happy with his leg again, coincidence, banged it? i don't know, but have got some more and he's running around the house like bambi again. But i knew he wasn't happy 'cos i was manipulating it as i do when i fussed him and he really growled at me (which is an improvement from 2 years ago when he would just have bitten when unhappy)

Anyway there is a hydrotherapy center 5 minute walk down the road, so am going to go speak to them at the weekend, over price and Chance's temperament etc.

My other concern is I think Chance is either older then the rescues guess or he's old before his time, he's just not been himself over the last week or so, he's not been ill, throwing up, not off his food or anything. But i just know he's not my Chance sad can't explain why it wouldn't make sense, but I feel it's more a mental problem rather then physical - as though he'd mentally given up  crying 

He does seem to have improved today and is having a good wrestle with harv as we speak, but he is still worrying me sad

Thanks for reading x

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Caryll on Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:29 pm

I wonder, if he has arthritis or hd, if he doesn't cope well with the pain/ache?

if

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by ella on Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:33 pm

I don't know, he's always been a dog to shrug pain or injury of as if nothing, or doesn't even notice - but what ever he's done to his leg was before coming to us.

Am hoping the hydrotherapy center will turn out to be helpful when we go

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Eleanor on Mon Jan 27, 2014 5:50 pm

It must be worrying for you, but I think hydrotherapy is a very good idea! If his leg is aching, that may have caused a slight shift in his mood.

 hug Unfortunately, we can't ask them what's wrong. Chance is probably better off than a lot of other dogs though, as you know him very well and always take the best possible care of him.
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Eleanor on Mon Jan 27, 2014 6:45 pm

How's he doing now? happy

It might help his mood now that you're on holiday and can spend even more time with him!
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Caryll on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:05 pm

Right, sorry about the short answer earlier on - I was in the middle of serving up dinner!

First of all, whatever is wrong with Chance, he is in the best possible place with two people (and a stafford) who will move heaven & earth to see him right!

You have three possibilities as I see it...

1. A new injury
2. Arthritis (either congenital & progressing or the result of a past injury)
3. HD

I doubt very much if it's a new injury - you watch both dogs so well that you'd have noticed.

Arthritis? Quite possible, but it really doesn't matter whether it's congenital or caused by injury - the treatment would be the same.

HD? Certainly possible given the hereditary problems in some ABDs.

So, if we discount the new injury, you have basically the same treatment for either of the other two. Anti inflammatories will be needed (you use Turmeric, don't you?), but you will also need to build up the gluteal muscles around the joint to support it & lessen any strain.

The best way is obviously hydrotherapy, plus free running on soft ground with no high impact exercise, at least for the time being.

In a way, I hope it's HD because with anti-inflams & the right exercise it shouldn't get any worse. Arthritis can be a progressive problem, but let's hope it isn't that. The only way to be sure is an x-ray, but I would have a couple of problems with that. One is Chance's temperament - he would be incredibly stressed both before & after the x-ray. The other would be that many vets don't really know what HD looks like. They see a slight abnormality & want to pump steroids into every orifice!

I think that he's a bit depressed at the moment. He had a bad start to life, and since he's been with you, he's felt no pain or fear - suddenly he's feeling pain/discomfort & he doesn't understand it. He isn't coping very well with it. But if you can get the muscles around the joints built up (assuming it as either arthritis or HD) then much of the strain will be taken off the inflamed area & he will start to recover his zest for life!

Keep us up to date with whatever you do - you know we're here for you!

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by ella on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:26 pm

just having tea at the moment shall reply after  hug 

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Dave on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:45 pm

awww poor fella , sorry I have no experience with stuff like this but seems between you and Caryll you have the info you need , hope me mate is feeling better soon  hug hug 
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by ella on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:54 pm

Caryll wrote:Right, sorry about the short answer earlier on - I was in the middle of serving up dinner!

First of all, whatever is wrong with Chance, he is in the best possible place with two people (and a stafford) who will move heaven & earth to see him right!

You have three possibilities as I see it...

1. A new injury
2. Arthritis (either congenital & progressing or the result of a past injury)
3. HD

I doubt very much if it's a new injury - you watch both dogs so well that you'd have noticed.

Arthritis? Quite possible, but it really doesn't matter whether it's congenital or caused by injury - the treatment would be the same.

HD? Certainly possible given the hereditary problems in some ABDs.

So, if we discount the new injury, you have basically the same treatment for either of the other two. Anti inflammatories will be needed (you use Turmeric, don't you?), but you will also need to build up the gluteal muscles around the joint to support it & lessen any strain.

The best way is obviously hydrotherapy, plus free running on soft ground with no high impact exercise, at least for the time being.

In a way, I hope it's HD because with anti-inflams & the right exercise it shouldn't get any worse. Arthritis can be a progressive problem, but let's hope it isn't that. The only way to be sure is an x-ray, but I would have a couple of problems with that. One is Chance's temperament - he would be incredibly stressed both before & after the x-ray. The other would be that many vets don't really know what HD looks like. They see a slight abnormality & want to pump steroids into every orifice!

I think that he's a bit depressed at the moment. He had a bad start to life, and since he's been with you, he's felt no pain or fear - suddenly he's feeling pain/discomfort & he doesn't understand it. He isn't coping very well with it. But if you can get the muscles around the joints built up (assuming it as either arthritis or HD) then much of the strain will be taken off the inflamed area & he will start to recover his zest for life!

Keep us up to date with whatever you do - you know we're here for you!

I can't see it being a new injury, but i'm not perfect i might have missed a bump causing the old injury to flare up.

So i'm leaning more towards HD or arthritis, I do give both boys a check over every day - you know checking feet, teeth, legs etc so he's used to me checking his leg and hip (thankfully) but i've increased his turmeric dose because it's such a good anti inflammatory, and i'm looking at adding yumove in as well.

But my first port of call is the hydrotherapy center, you know i keep the boys very lean so extra weight on his hips isn't a problem, and he has very good muscling on them but any extra and i think the swimming will help.

I'm not one to run straight to the vets at the littlest thing, but he has been seen by a couple of vets, and if he gets worse then I will then consider the x-ray but ATM it will be more stress for him mentally, and I wouldn't want Chance on steroids I couldn't risk the side effects and the possibility of it aggravating his aggression.

But just needed to vent my worries some where sad

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by LyndaW on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:55 pm

Poor Chance - I wish I could say something helpful, but Caryll has given you much more help than I ever could.

But being me, I'll just say two things, whether they're helpful or even accurate or not.

HD - I've had no experience of this in my own dogs (thank heavens) but I would have thought you would have seen evidence of this before now - lameness or hitching the hind leg when he trots. On another site someone posted a video of their puppy hitching his hind leg as he ran to and fro, and I posted that it looked like HD. Some months later that same poster came back and said his pup had been diagnosed with HD.

Arthritis - both my Dobes developed arthritis as they reached the ages of 9 or so. Typically, they were stiff in the affected leg when rising from rest, but would then recover fairly quickly until they rested again. Now I've got arthritis in my own knee I'm much the same, although I limp!

Anyway - love and hugs to both you and Chance and hoping he picks up again soon  hug   hug   hug 
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Eleanor on Mon Jan 27, 2014 7:55 pm

I personally think you've done everything you'd be expected to do. happy

hug We all need to vent sometimes and we're all here for you and Chance.
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by ella on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:13 pm

LyndaW wrote:Poor Chance - I wish I could say something helpful, but Caryll has given you much more help than I ever could.

But being me, I'll just say two things, whether they're helpful or even accurate or not.

HD - I've had no experience of this in my own dogs (thank heavens) but I would have thought you would have seen evidence of this before now - lameness or hitching the hind leg when he trots.  On another site someone posted a video of their puppy hitching his hind leg as he ran to and fro, and I posted that it looked like HD.  Some months later that same poster came back and said his pup had been diagnosed with HD.  

Arthritis - both my Dobes developed arthritis as they reached the ages of 9 or so. Typically, they were stiff in the affected leg when rising from rest, but would then recover fairly quickly until they rested again.  Now I've got arthritis in my own knee I'm much the same, although I limp!

Anyway - love and hugs to both you and Chance and hoping he picks up again soon  hug   hug   hug 

He doesn't show typical signs of HD like the bunny hopping when he runs, he doesn't click at all, but i think it would take an awful lot to get Chance to limp - such a bloody stubborn boy, which is why it would be harder for a vet to see what's wrong without an x-ray.

He does have a large scar on his inner thigh on that leg which is long since healed, but it looks like an injury to the muscle so could be that, that's playing up with the cold weather not helping? I just don't know sad but can only do what i can

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Caryll on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:19 pm

 
ella wrote:
and I wouldn't want Chance on steroids I couldn't risk the side effects and the possibility of it aggravating his aggression.

At the moment I wouldn't even consider steroids. The hydrotherapy will build up the right muscles even more than ordinary exercise with the plus that there's no extra strain on the joints. It'll probably do him the worls of good.

ella wrote:He does have a large scar on his inner thigh on that leg which is long since healed, but it looks like an injury to the muscle so could be that, that's playing up with the cold weather not helping? I just don't know :(but can only do what i can

Wouldn't you have seen it last winter, though - it was a lot colder last year than this?

ella wrote:
But just needed to vent my worries some where sad

Sometimes you just need to bounce your own thoughts off others! hug

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Eleanor on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:20 pm

If there's a scar there, it's more than likely that it could be muscular scar tissue. Scar tissue isn't as flexible as muscle tissue, so vets often misdiagnose it as arthritis.

You could try talking to a canine massage therapist about it, as massage therapy can help to break down the scar tissue and allow the flexibility to return.

As for the problem only occurring recently, it could be that Chance had a certain amount of scar tissue on the muscle due to the old injury. The recent problem when he fell off the bed could have strained the muscle, which again causes a certain amount of scar tissue to the muscle. This extra tissue may have caused the discomfort.
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by ella on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:24 pm

Caryll wrote: 
ella wrote:
and I wouldn't want Chance on steroids I couldn't risk the side effects and the possibility of it aggravating his aggression.

At the moment I wouldn't even consider steroids. The hydrotherapy will build up the right muscles even more than ordinary exercise with the plus that there's no extra strain on the joints. It'll probably do him the worls of good.

ella wrote:He does have a large scar on his inner thigh on that leg which is long since healed, but it looks like an injury to the muscle so could be that, that's playing up with the cold weather not helping? I just don't know :(but can only do what i can

Wouldn't you have seen it last winter, though - it was a lot colder last year than this?

ella wrote:
But just needed to vent my worries some where sad

Sometimes you just need to bounce your own thoughts off others! hug

I no i'm just trying to think of everything i think sad but I will let you know how the meeting goes with the hydrotherapy center hug

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by ella on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:26 pm

ECdogs wrote:If there's a scar there, it's more than likely that it could be muscular scar tissue. Scar tissue isn't as flexible as muscle tissue, so vets often misdiagnose it as arthritis.

You could try talking to a canine massage therapist about it, as massage therapy can help to break down the scar tissue and allow the flexibility to return.

As for the problem only occurring recently, it could be that Chance had a certain amount of scar tissue on the muscle due to the old injury. The recent problem when he fell off the bed could have strained the muscle, which again causes a certain amount of scar tissue to the muscle. This extra tissue may have caused the discomfort.

Yer it's definitely another option, will have a look at trying to find a massage therapist.

Thanks guys happy

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Eleanor on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:28 pm

hug Let us know how it goes with the hydrotherapist!
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Caryll on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:30 pm

If your vet can refer you the insurance may cover the cost?

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by LyndaW on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:36 pm

Ella, you are doing everything you can so I hope you're not beating yourself up about that!  Including the supplementary stuff. tbh with arthritis I don't limp through pain but because the joint is no longer "fit for purpose" and doesn't work mechanically like it should, and I would hazard a guess that in dogs with arthritis or HD any limping or bunny-hopping (good description!) would be the same.

Sounds like it may be the old injury, especially if it's indented anywhere. Can you tell whether it's an operation scar or just a general tear?  Maybe it just got twisted or wanged when he fell awkwardly or got banged into which made him squeak.  

As Eleanor says, it is good to offload our worries and where better than here  happy

PS  just seen the posts above - speaking more sense than I probably am!  hug   hug
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Eleanor on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:47 pm

I agree with Lynda happy You're an excellent owner and you've got two beautiful, strong boys to prove it!
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Serendipity on Mon Jan 27, 2014 8:58 pm

Hello Ella
Sorry to hear about Chance sad 
I think Hydrotherapy would be great for him but there is also the water treadmill if they have one happy 
Hope he feels better soon

Linda

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Lynne on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:03 pm

So sorry about Chance hope its nothing too serious and he feels better soon.

I can't add anything more there has been some great advice given, just don't beat yourself up about it

 hug 
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by ella on Mon Jan 27, 2014 9:45 pm

Caryll wrote:If your vet can refer you the insurance may cover the cost?
Yer hydrotherapy is covered in my insurance but am going to ask what sort of price they charge first happy

LyndaW wrote:Ella, you are doing everything you can so I hope you're not beating yourself up about that!  Including the supplementary stuff. tbh with arthritis I don't limp through pain but because the joint is no longer "fit for purpose" and doesn't work mechanically like it should, and I would hazard a guess that in dogs with arthritis or HD any limping or bunny-hopping (good description!) would be the same.

Sounds like it may be the old injury, especially if it's indented anywhere. Can you tell whether it's an operation scar or just a general tear?  Maybe it just got twisted or wanged when he fell awkwardly or got banged into which made him squeak.  

As Eleanor says, it is good to offload our worries and where better than here  happy

PS  just seen the posts above - speaking more sense than I probably am!  hug   hug

It looks like a tear rather then operation, it's not uniform and neat so to speak like you expect with an operation sad

Serendipity wrote:Hello Ella
Sorry to hear about Chance sad 
I think Hydrotherapy would be great for him but there is also the water treadmill if they have one happy 
Hope he feels better soon

Linda
Yes they do have a water treadmill which is another i'm going to ask them about happy

Lynne wrote:So sorry about Chance hope its nothing too serious and he feels better soon.

I can't add anything more there has been some great advice given, just don't beat yourself up about it

 hug 

thanks hun happy

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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Eleanor on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:09 pm

Poor Chance! At least he got a nice forever home though happy
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Re: Am worried over Chance

Post by Caryll on Mon Jan 27, 2014 10:12 pm

Makes you wonder exactly what he went through before he came to you, doesn't it? Didn't he have cigarette burns on him? sad 

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