Training with Markers/Clickers

IMAO this is an excellent article on training. It's quite long and intensive so put aside some study time.

http://leerburg.com/markers.htm

Yes, I'll have a look tomorrow, when I'm less tired!

I like that he's honest and says he was a fool to be against this training method for so long. I don't agree with some of his other articles but this was good.

thank you Theresa - I too will have a good read of the article in a day or so.

I didn't have a good experience with clicker training with my Staffie pup, but I will read the article with open mind.

I'll certainly look at it when I can!

LyndaW wrote:thank you Theresa - I too will have a good read of the article in a day or so.

I didn't have a good experience with clicker training with my Staffie pup, but I will read the article with open mind.

It's not so much about clickers as marking the behaviour you want positively and what you don't want negatively.
I used to think clickers were a waste of time, my dogs all had high food drive so no problem. When I got Axel he couldn't be bothered with treats so I had to adapt. I actually clicked him into realizing treats are a high value item.

I'll have a read of it. I tried clicker training with Millie but I couldn't really get to grips with it and probably gave up too soon.

Wow, that is a very long article!

I didn't read all of it, but what I did read made a lot if sense, although I did cringe with the mention if 'pack leadership', and 'dominant aggressive dogs'!!

I knew from experience that there are times when a pack leader has to correct his dog

I agree with the concept of 'pack leadership'. I think it has helped a persentage of 'normal' dog owners realize that they're responsible for their dogs behaviour.
Also in a multi dog household like mine I have to be the 'leader', my word has to be law or there will be trouble.
I do also think 'pack leader' has been milked to death by the more popular tv trainers.

I do agree that the human family must be in charge, but I don't agree with the term 'pack leader' as you can never be that in your dog's eyes. He/she/they know that you're not a dog for a start!

If you have more than one dog (and I'm sure you'll have noticed this) the hierarchy within the doggie family is never a stable one. You might get one in charge one day, and another in charge the following day. But you will (or should) be overall in charge. To me, that's not the same as pack leadership, albeit a subtle difference.

Apart from that, though, a lot of it made good sense. I don't do clicker (or marker) training with Dempsey because it just didn't suit him, but I think it's a good way.

I've been using this method (not religiously) and it works quite well.
I'm using: Mooi (pretty/right) to mark the right thing
Uhuh when I see they're heading towards doing the wrong thing
and No with a highly disgusted look for doing the wrong thing.

I've also been reading up on teamwork exercises.

Must have missed this!

I think clicker training works wonders with a lot of dogs, especially when used as a reward bridge for long distance work.

The article is about using your voice as different markers for doing the right, wrong and going off course.

It won't load for me, but I think that's just because my wifi signal is weak. I'll keep trying!

It's very long and complicated else I would have copied it on here.

S'okay - it's loaded! Just reading through it now

Some really good points on motivation and generalisation! The pictures are nice too!

Love this point: 'non confrontational, which is why it works so well with dominant aggressive animals or animals with absolutely no training, or animals that need to be retrained'

I think it's great that the article explains exactly why clicker training is different from other methods, as well as what somebody can hope to achieve from doing it properly. Distinguished very clearly between fact and opinion, which I think makes it a lot easier to get into.

The '5 magic words' part isn't something I've come across/thought of before, but it looks really interesting! It makes sense, really!

Also, I love the part about distinguishing between 'Yes' and 'Good.' I might try that with Demps, as he often stops doing whatever behaviour he's exhibiting once he hears, "Good boy!"

The 'Nope' part, as well! (Sorry, I'm commenting as I read!)

I might start searching around for a favourite treat for Demps.

It is a very common thing for people to get nervous when they train dogs. This is especially true when they train in front of other people.

Those who do get nervous need to learn to relax and control their nerves.

Dogs know when you are angry, they sense it. They also know when you are nervous. If their pack leader is nervous then they think something wrong. When the pack leader is nervous they think they need to be on guard. When dogs are nervous the learning process slows down.

So if you have a nervous temperament by nature you need to practice controlling your nerves for the sake of your dog and it's training. Take a deep breath; take a time out; meditate; try to mentally walk through what you want to do. Video tape your training. The simple act of having a camera rolling makes many people nervous. This helps relax you.

Bottom line is that if you expect your dog to have emotional control then you need to be able to demonstrate the same thing.

I relate this to people who ride horses. A horse knows if you’re a nervous rider. Nervous riders are those riders who end up on the ground.

Just described me! Working on it though.

Aaaaand it only loaded up to that point. Will have to wait for the rest to load before I comment!

I'll have a good read when I have a bit more time - it sounds really good!

It's a study not a read   
And I think I said that I like that he says he thought clicker training was nonsense till he saw and tried it and realised what an idiot he had been.

Ok. I'll study it when I get some more time!  

Here's a link to the PDF file you can download and save on your pc

http://leerburg.com/pdf/markers-clickers.pdf

Yep.  Thats a study all right. let me read. See you all tomorrow.

Up to page 14. I gotta say....
That's how I always train. What he calls "marker training".
Only I use .... Watch! Good boy / girl. Nooo. Again.

Ive never used a clicker as "marker" training has always worked for me.

I'll read the bal tomorrow.  Its late here & I want to read it properly. Looks like it's going to be an interesting read.

Dog people and their novels

Can I just say, YES, YES, & YES!
I think he is spot on!
Body language,  high reward treats, impeccable timing, voice tone,  the look command, hand signals, etc....

I am at one with him. That is how I have always trained my guys. A few variances but....  

I once had a doggie school trainer tell me I couldnt use baked kabana bits at school as it was unfair to others. What the?   (My cousin is a qualified dog trainer/behaviourist.  He said she was an idiot & shouldnt be on the training ground...He specializes in advanced training, tracking, & response. )  I'll use whatever my dog likes to get him to respond! I left the school shortly after. The trainer had no idea in my opinion. To be honest, I was only there to socialize him.

I also dont & have never used a clicker, only voice, hand signals, praise & yummy stuff.  ( yes I look like someome directing a plane to the gate! Like I care)    One day I may not have a voice for whatever reason nor a clicker in my pocket, maybe my dog is too far away to hear me? But I know he can see my arms! Body movements! I use voice & silent signals. Always have, always will. Worked for my dad & he was brilliant at training. 1,2,3, finger clicks.. a head move... his doberman knew exactly what to do? I learnt from dad, i also have no need to speak to my dogs for them to know what I want from them.

As for body language,  doh! Have you not noticed when you are... getting ready for work, angry, about to take them walkies etc, your dog reacts. Hmmmm, I'm going out.... yeah, (jumping) put my walkies collar on!!!

I train mine to drop in a line of dogs, we then throw balls, food, & get pups to play in front of them, people with yummy things calling their name to come get a treat. They don't move when they have been told to "stay". "watch me". (Finger point to dog, then finger to chin, I want you to hold my gaze.)

"Pack" hierarchy is alive and well in this house. It is what I teach to keep mine inline. I am the top, the cat maybe the last in but, you will show respect!

I use treats as a reward to this day but far less often as grown dogs. Just my voice or attention normally gets the desired response. 

I think his principles are both sound & proven. This is pretty much how i train mine to live with any other species in harmony. A very reaffirming article for me.