Crows and Magpies

This has puzzled me for years - does anyone know if crows and magpies crossbreed?

Reason I ask. We have more magpies around here than you can shake a stick at, and rather a lot less crows. For many years I have seen birds as big as crows, they look like crows (maybe a slightly dustier black than your average crow), and when they fly away their wings show a cross banding of off-white. These birds don't seem to mix with ordinary crows but when there are more than one they tend to stick together.

Any ideas, anyone?

Technically, they can interbreed, but they don't. Not naturally, at least. What you saw was probably a leucistic crow!

Leucism occurs when pigment doesn't develop properly. This can result in partial (or complete, in rare cases) white colouration. Crows seem to develop this more often than other animals. It often appears as white bars along the wings and tail, a bit like a magpie.

It could also be a crow as it's moulting. When they shed their feathers, the white area of the feathers can become visible. Leaves them looking very scruffy!

Some pictures of leucism:

Your final photo is most like the birds I see, and although "my" birds don't have quite such definite white feathers it's very like.

So, thank you Eleanor! I think now that my weirdy crows are a perpetuating and probably inbreeding family group.

I know the type you mean - we used to have one in our area a couple of years ago! Only noticeable when it took flight. Strange, aren't they?

You're welcome! You know their dirty little secret!

They are very strange and have worried me for years, as in what the heck is going on here.

They don't seem to like ordinary crows and ordinary crows don't seem to like them, so I can understand why they stick to their own.

Thank you Eleanor for clearing up a mystery!

It's weird that there are so many of them! Wish I could see them!

Well maybe one day they will be identified as the Farnborough sub-species of crows!

If you really want to see them you know where to come!

Perhaps their Latin name could be named after you!

Careful - I might just decide to show up on your doorstep! I've already made plans to do it to Shisa!

There are a few in the park round the corner to us. Eleanor doesn't see them as she doesn't go over there!  

I think they are more likely to be a mutation that have created a sub species. Birds are wired to not crossbreed, and will avoid ones who don't look the same. My hens always pick on and kill the one who is different.

I do go over the park! Most of the crows with white on them there are just scruffy, old and molting!

If it was a subspecies, we probably would have seen a gradual evolution of them.

Yes, it takes many, many years to create a sub species.

Hayley wrote:I think they are more likely to be a mutation that have created a sub species. Birds are wired to not crossbreed, and will avoid ones who don't look the same. My hens always pick on and kill the one who is different.

Birds have horrible non-human characters sometimes don't they? I always feel sorry for people who have had their pet budgie/canary/cockatiel make a bid for freedom - they don't stand a chance out there. (exception being a flock of parakeets in south London - they are thriving!)

I think you're right Hayley - my weirdy crows certainly "flock together" and are relatively timid, whereas your bog-standard crow can be very assertive!

I have heard that there seem to be a lot of Corvids around now with odd white feathers, and they are now thinking it's some kind of dietary deficiency. The white feathers are more brittle and break easily, so that could be a reason they look more scruffy, and also the healthy normal Corvids would definitely pick on the 'under dog', hence the ones with white feathers would stay away from the others for fear of being picked on! xxx

I've heard of it - it's suspected to be due to the parents ingesting/feeding their offspring pesticide-food. The feathers form to be very brittle, weak and easily breakable. These ones almost always perish after a couple of years, either from predation or lack of food.

That's interesting (and sad), Amber and Eleanor. Maybe that's the answer here (although the off-white band is always on their wings - the feathers you see in flight.

Heaven only knows what my local crows eat; there a loads of gardens around our little "park" with some keen gardeners who probably use pesticides. There can't be that much carrion to go round and everyone has wheely bins so they can't steal household refuse.

I remember now many years ago that there was a male blackbird who had a very obvious white splodge on one wing. He disappeared as birds do, but for several years I saw male blackbirds (I'm assuming his sons, grandsons etc etc) with gradually diminishing amounts of white feathers about them. The last one I saw had just a dusting of greyish feathers above his beak. And then I guess the tendency died out.

LyndaW wrote:
Heaven only knows what my local crows eat;

They're called Carrion Crows, but they'll eat almost anything! Including leatherjackets, grubs of all sorts and human left overs!

LyndaW wrote:That's interesting (and sad), Amber and Eleanor.  Maybe that's the answer here (although the off-white band is always on their wings - the feathers you see in flight.

Heaven only knows what my local crows eat; there a loads of gardens around our little "park" with some keen gardeners who probably use pesticides.  There can't be that much carrion to go round and everyone has wheely bins so they can't steal household refuse.

I remember now many years ago that there was a male blackbird who had a very obvious white splodge on one wing.  He disappeared as birds do, but for several years I saw male blackbirds (I'm assuming his sons, grandsons etc etc) with gradually diminishing amounts of white feathers about them.  The last one I saw had just a dusting of greyish feathers above his beak.  And then I guess the tendency died out.  

By the way, Lynda, do these crows tend to be about during particular seasons? Or is it all year around? If it's seasonal, they're probably just molting! They stay away from other crows - or rather, other crows stay away from them - because they're vulnerable.

The wild birds with damaged feathers usually don't make it. Sad. Sometimes, the feathers will strengthen after a molt, but they usually don't get to that stage.

Caryll wrote:

LyndaW wrote:
Heaven only knows what my local crows eat;

They're called Carrion Crows, but they'll eat almost anything! Including leatherjackets, grubs of all sorts and human left overs!

Nom nom nom!

Also, now and again, we get Hooded Crows mingling with the Carrion Crows, although they're not common here. They have a grey back and front. xxx

We don't see hooded crows round here, although we used to see a lot of them when we lived in Wales.

I've never seen a hooded crow either, I think I'm too far south for them.

Eleanor - tbh I'm not sure of the seasons when I have seen my weirdy crows, although I will pay more attention in the future. The last one I saw was about two weeks ago.

Ref their feeding habits - although I personally don't have a lawn to worry about they are welcome to all the leatherjackets they can find as far as I am concerned. I know craneflies are harmless but they are like flying spiders to me and I can't stand them. Grubs - just leave butterfly caterpillars and most moth caterpillars alone please crows - thank you (you can eat the caterpillars that are attacking our trees as much as you like though). Human leftovers - on second thoughts crows probably have great pickings here along the routes radiating outwards from the KFC.

I'm beginning to love crows!

If you ever get close enough for pictures, I'd love to see these mysterious crows!

They're noisy things, but they do a good job at clearing the place up!

I'm afraid that I am a terrible photographer! I can't even manage to get a decent photo of Kuchar, never mind a crow suddenly flying away from me!

I will try though, but please don't hold your breath!

So am I! I just tend to point the camera randomly and click away at the button!