Pedigree dogs exposed

Anyone seen this? I've just started watching.

I can't load the video on my phone. Is it in English?

Yes.
Pedigree Dogs Exposed seems to be the title.

Awful, awful, I've been in tears with some of the dogs.

I can't open it.

If it's Pedigree Dogs Exposed then it might be the one that was shown here a while ago?

Pedigree Dogs Exposed was aired a few years ago, I believe. You'll probably be happy to know that a lot of changes have been made since then, to improve the various breeds!

Eleanor wrote:Pedigree Dogs Exposed was aired a few years ago, I believe. You'll probably be happy to know that a lot of changes have been made since then, to improve the various breeds!

I'm downloading the one made in 2012 Pedigree Dogs Exposed: 3 years on at the moment.
I have lost the last little bit of respect I might have still had for the Kennel Unions/Clubs.
Eleanor I think saying much has been done is an over estimation. Some people might have started doing things to improve some breeds but most can't be arsed.

In the big picture, the majority of the breeders registered with the KC have been gradually lessening the harmful exaggerations of the more 'problematic' breeds.

The Kennel Club has a lot to answer for, but it is purely a registering body. It cannot, legally, force people to breed dogs in a certain way.

Yes, they should have tried to do something sooner, but at least they have started shat is a mammoth task!

Making them the scapegoat for all the breeding wrongs is pointless & will do no good whatsoever.

Caryll wrote:The Kennel Club has a lot to answer for, but it is purely a registering body. It cannot, legally, force people to breed dogs in a certain way.

But the can force judges and they can influence breed standards.

The breed standards were changed shortly after Pedigree Dogs: Exposed came out. If I remember correctly, their plans were to gradually make adjustments to each standard, to slowly wean out the harmful exaggerations in each breed without having to resort to inbreeding.

The KC can't 'force' judges to judge a certain way. If the did that they'd probably lose three quarters of their judges!

All they can do is amend the breed standards (in consultation with the breed clubs) to ease out exaggeration. But it will take time, it isn't something that can be changed in a few weeks or months. It will take a few years.

Bias is a terrible thing.

Poor breeding has been carried out by breeders for a hundred years or more. To reverse that is going to take a lot longer than 5 years! The article says that 5 years is a significant time, but it isn't!

The KC can't ban certain breeds like the pug & bulldog the way Jemima Harrison wants because then the breeding will go on underground with no controls whatsoever!

I wish people would stop using the KC as a scapegoat & realise that it is the breeders who have changed these breeds. Yes, the KC should have seen what was going on & done something earlier, but let's give them the chance to make amends and monitor the problematic breeds.

The KC charitable trust is constantly coming up with new DNA tests for hereditary problems, especially breed specific ones, and are in constant touch with the breed clubs to monitor the progress of the reforms.

Deformities/genetic illnesses cannot be bred out over a couple of generations. To do that would mean discarding some of the best examples of the breed & breeding from physically inferior dogs.

I am not a KC supporter, but neither am I a KC basher. The job will be done, even if the ordinary bods in the street have to remind them from time to time.

The KC is what governs the standards, gives judges the authority to decide how to interpret the standards and holds shows to showcase the best examples of the breeds.

Yes breeders should get blame but many are aspiring to what the KC and it's judges demand. The KC and it's judges don't conform to what the breeders want.

If the KC's and Unions, the world over, had been under the control of someone working for the good of the canine species I don't think dogs would be falling apart. I feel it's yet another thing where power and greed got the upper hand over people.

For example: I can buy a registered Stafford for R3000.00 here. Put a few champions towards the back of the pedigree and I'll pay R5000.00. If one of the parents is a champion I'm looking at R8000.00

In 5 years you should see some improvement.
We changed a whole country in less time than that.

Shisa wrote:The KC is what governs the standards, gives judges the authority to decide how to interpret the standards and holds shows to showcase the best examples of the breeds.

Yes breeders should get blame but many are aspiring to what the KC and it's judges demand. The KC and it's judges don't conform to what the breeders want.

The breed clubs (in the UK) appoint the judges, the KC ratify them, it's true, but trust the breed clubs to 'get it right'. The KC does not tell judges how to interpret the breed standards - every individual is different which is why you'll see one dog win under one judge but not another.

the breeders in questions have not aspired to meet the breed standard, they have had their own agenda and have bred dogs the way they wanted to.

Yes, the KC should have seen it coming & should have done something about it - now they have, and are.

Shisa wrote:In 5 years you should see some improvement.
We changed a whole country in less time than that.

Things have improved, but not as much as Jemima Harrison and her ilk would like. To my mind, that would be impossible - she wants to see the total end of breeds such as the pug, the bulldog, many of the toy breeds & some of the mastiff class. It can't and won't happen & if the KC decide not to accept registrations from these breeds they will go it alone. Then where will the breeds be? At the mercy of self seeking, money minded a*sholes; even more so that today because they will have free reign to do whatever they like!

I agree that prices of pups can be ridiculous just because there's a champion in the near past, but that's just the way of it & not just with dogs. Cats, cattle, sheep, guinea Pigs etc all fetch higher prices with a champion in the background. But that has nothing at all to do with the health of the breeds (and it isn't all breeds, just a relative few). Good stock always bring high prices, and a champion in the pedigree tends to point towards good breeding, as long as it's done properly!

Reading and listening to everyone's thoughts, insights and understanding I think we can sum it up as a Ouroboros. It's a never ending circle where everything feeds into itself and the dogs have been left to suffer.

Absolutely.

But at least there's one good thing to have come out of the original PDE programme - people have had to sit up & take notice & things are changing. But as with all things in nature, change is fairly slow, slower than we would perhaps like, but it's getting there!

There has been improvement, though. I often bang on about it, but a good example was last year, at Discover Dogs, when I was chatting to a breeder of English Bulldogs. She was telling me about how they'd targeted the brachycephaly first, slowly lengthening the muzzle with each litter. Then they'd included the tail in their selective breeding, producing litters with straight tails, rather than corkscrews. The results were right there to see, as well; the dog I was making a fuss of had a straight tail and a considerably longer nose than the EBD of five years prior. The head was still slightly flattened, of course, but no-where near as badly as before! And it was still a work in progress.

Eleanor wrote:There has been improvement, though. I often bang on about it, but a good example was last year, at Discover Dogs, when I was chatting to a breeder of English Bulldogs. She was telling me about how they'd targeted the brachycephaly first, slowly lengthening the muzzle with each litter. Then they'd included the tail in their selective breeding, producing litters with straight tails, rather than corkscrews. The results were right there to see, as well; the dog I was making a fuss of had a straight tail and a considerably longer nose than the EBD of five years prior. The head was still slightly flattened, of course, but no-where near as badly as before! And it was still a work in progress.

But out of the 10's of thousands of breeders world wide how many will do this unless forced?

Not many. Unfortunately, the KC only operates in the UK.

Just remembered something I meant to add on here! Thought it might be of interest.

The assignment I was agonising over for the past three months was based on the main causes of joint problems. While I was researching, I came across an interesting journal on genetic improvement of hip dysplasia in 74 breeds over 40 years. It was based in America, but the findings could also be applied to other areas. They used a multiple-trait mixed model to counteract bias in the results of the OFA registry for hip and elbow dysplasia.

The scores from the OFA reports showed very little improvement over the last 40 years. However, when the multiple-trait mixed model was used, taking into account influential factors such as age and pedigree, a 16.4% improvement was seen.

Bearing in mind that, although this study was published in 2013, they were using results from before 2010. Pedigree Dogs Exposed had only been released a couple of years before, in 2008. Giving time after this for the KC to introduce the revised breed standards, the genetic improvement has probably risen considerably since this study was conducted.

Shisa wrote:

Eleanor wrote:There has been improvement, though. I often bang on about it, but a good example was last year, at Discover Dogs, when I was chatting to a breeder of English Bulldogs. She was telling me about how they'd targeted the brachycephaly first, slowly lengthening the muzzle with each litter. Then they'd included the tail in their selective breeding, producing litters with straight tails, rather than corkscrews. The results were right there to see, as well; the dog I was making a fuss of had a straight tail and a considerably longer nose than the EBD of five years prior. The head was still slightly flattened, of course, but no-where near as badly as before! And it was still a work in progress.

But out of the 10's of thousands of breeders world wide how many will do this unless forced?

There's very little you can do to 'force' breeders to comply. If too much pressure is applied the bad breeders will split from the KC and whatever they like!