KC - "Memphis Belle was not lame"

http://www.dogworld.co.uk/product.php/107330/1/_lack_of_evidence__that_stafford_bob_at_crufts_was_lame__rules_kc/7a7a048c46a28390528dee1a8ddfbf32

Well, sorry KC, but I saw the Best of Breed judging, and she was slightly lame. Then, in the group ring she was even more lame. It appeared that a Steward asked them to leave the ring, although Mr Blacker said that he decided to withdraw as she was 'a little tired & it showed in her movement'.

They just don't want to admit that she got her placing because she's the breed record holder! It's this sort of judging (and I'm not saying all judges are like it) that is killing dog show entries.

Sad, really, that a dog's health comes in second to the owner's glory.

It happens throughout the show world (not just dogs) but there are honest judges out there - they just get forgotten when the dishonest ones come to light!

Yup. Same with a lot of things! One bad apple seems to spoil the bunch. It isn't fair, considering a lot of owners absolutely dote on their dogs.

I'm afraid I got disenchanted with the dog showing world a long time ago - NOT sour grapes I do assure you. I could expand on this, but all I'll say for now is that I do wish that judges would ignore whatever human is on the end of the lead and concentrate on the dogs in front of them on the day.

LyndaW wrote:I'm afraid I got disenchanted with the dog showing world a long time ago - NOT sour grapes I do assure you.  I could expand on this, but all I'll say for now is that I do wish that judges would ignore whatever human is on the end of the lead and concentrate on the dogs in front of them on the day.

YES! THIS! SO MUCH!

I never liked the attitude of showing. Not so bad at places like Crufts, but the breed specifics could be very cliquey. The EBT shows seemed to be alright on the outside, but we didn't really get far enough into it to discover whether or not there was favouritism. Any good judge should judge the dog, not the owner.

There were certainly cliques, but I don't know how far they affected the judging.

Caryll wrote:There were certainly cliques, but I don't know how far they affected the judging.

I'd be pretty sure too that Crufts judges are top-level judges who know their stuff and in fact when I showed my Dobermanns they often did better under a top judge than under a person who was appointed as a judge because they had happened to own or breed a dog or two who did well in the show ring.

OK, here's why I finally gave up showing (warning - a Lynda memory coming up !)

In the '70s and '80s Dobermann classes were very large, even at an Open show you'd generally get 30 or so dogs in Puppy and Novice. So I took Rio to an Open show and there were the usual 30ish dogs in the Novice class. Reading my catalogue, I was shocked to see an entry of a dog who was bred by the judge! I don't know how it is now, but in those days it was not the done thing to enter a dog for judging by the breeder, for obvious reasons. So I watched that dog with particular interest, and was so embarrassed for it and the judge/breeder to see it moving with a roached back and a "camel" gait. And what do you think - of all the lovely dogs in that large class, it was placed third!

I'd be miffed at that as well, Lynda! That shouldn't be acceptable!

I think back then it was a 'guideline' rather than a rule, whereas now it's a rule - you can't show a dog that has been bred (or owned by) the judge.

Yes, the judges at Crufts are top class. But that brings high expectations, and when one falls below standard (as in this case) it shows up even more!

I knew that the dog-showing world was "facey" and friends who showed different breeds often said this to me as well. I don't know if there was any outcome from this particular farce because I was so disgusted that I quit showing then and there.

I still have the rosettes and cards that my dogs gained though!

Yes, I still have mine as well! Unfortunately I no longer have all the rosettes & trophies I won in obedience.  

Yes, it may well have been an unwritten rule Caryll, but one which most people abided by. I'm glad to hear it is now a rule.

As for the dog that was lame at Crufts, I'm in two minds. If she was obviously the better of the two in BOB then perhaps a slight lameness due to a pulled muscle or prickle in her paw might be forgiven. But I do agree that in the group judging, if she was even lamer, then she should have been withdrawn.

I suppose, in the bob judging, it's hard to say which 'type' the judge preferred. The dog was definitely of a shorter, bullier kind than the bitch, and maybe the judge thought she displayed more breed type. But at that level, they should both have been of good merit and the movement should have played a large part in the decision, but it obviously didn't.

It's a shame, because then thousands of people watching at home saw her limp into the main ring, and it didn't look good.

If she was lame, then her handler should have withdrawn her. As it was, he was asked to withdraw - maybe that's only a slight difference, but it's an important one.

Caryll wrote:Yes, I still have mine as well! Unfortunately I no longer have all the rosettes & trophies I won in obedience.  

Oh that's such a shame Caryll, I do feel for you. Oh heck, here comes another memory!

I still regret my stupidity by which I lost every single one of the rosettes my horses won. I'd written on the backs who won them and when, and often how if they'd been particularly brilliant. All the rosettes were pinned up in my tack room, but we were moving the stables so I brought all the rosettes, plus a martingale and a D-ring snaffle bit, back home in a screw-top dustbin I'd kept oats in. Why oh why did I put this bin by the household bins? Teenagers have no brains. Next day the dustmen came and you can guess what happened.

Caryll wrote:I suppose, in the bob judging, it's hard to say which 'type' the judge preferred. The dog was definitely of a shorter, bullier kind than the bitch, and maybe the judge thought she displayed more breed type. But at that level, they should both have been of good merit and the movement should have played a large part in the decision, but it obviously didn't.

It's a shame, because then thousands of people watching at home saw her limp into the main ring, and it didn't look good.

If she was lame, then her handler should have withdrawn her. As it was, he was asked to withdraw - maybe that's only a slight difference, but it's an important one.

I take all your points Caryll - well made.

Oh, no, that's awful! You must've been so upset, I know I would've been.  

Still am after all these years Caryll. Especially as it was my own stupid fault.

I expect you're equally gutted about losing your remembrances, although I'll bet you weren't as daft as I was.

I think I have one trophy, which Eleanor has somewhere. I have no idea what happened to the rest!