GSD judge loses appointment after facebook debate

Article from Dog World Newspaper 18/7/14

"A GERMAN Shepherd Dog judge has lost her appointment due to comments she made on a closed Facebook group.

Angela Carradice was to officiate at the Scottish Kennel Club’s August show but was told that the comments she made in May regarding longcoat GSDs were ‘inappropriate and manifestly unfair’ and would ‘undoubtedly affect entries’.

The lengthy debate within the closed group, which has nearly 500 members, started at the beginning of that month when Miss Carradice (Koesfeld) wrote that a young male who had recently gained his first CC had been beaten in his class by a longcoat.

"For me it seems that the day a longcoat winning a CC or RCC draws closer, how sad,” she said.

The debate began, and a few days later Miss Carradice wrote: "Say you only have two, three or four in a class of which one was a longcoat I would place it last and withhold the place. If a normal-coated dog in the same class had a major breed fault I would also withhold, and if the longcoat’s conformation was correct I would place it in front, but still not giving a place above the final prize cards….

"I hope that when I judge later this year I do not have any longcoats entered under me but I hope that I’ve made it clear as to how I will place them. As I’ve said earlier, we cannot blame owners of longcoats entering breed class if they think they have a chance of winning.”

On June 19 Miss Carradice received a letter from SKC secretary Beth Harrison saying: "The content of this posting is a matter of great concern to the SKC as you are clearly expressing your intentions about the judging of GSDs prior to the show, which is manifestly unfair and inappropriate.




‘Affect entries’

"We would also add that having stated your preferences this will undoubtedly affect entries for the above show which is of grave concern to the SKC. You should be aware that this matter will be referred to the relevant Kennel Club Judges Sub-Committee for their consideration, and the outcome of such consideration may include the withdrawal of your judging appointment.

"We therefore first give you the opportunity of providing any submissions and comments for the Judges Sub-Committee within the next 14 days.”



Miss Carradice replied saying: "Since GSD have been exhibited in the country a long coat has always been considered a disqualifying fault by most GSD judges under the KC breed Standard. On the rare occasions they were exhibited, usually by a novice, they were consistently placed to the back of the class.

"I have been judging for over 30 years, the last time awarding CCs in the breed in 2000, and only on two occasions have I had longcoats shown under me, one of which had been stripped out. Both were placed last, admittedly both classes contained more than a dozen dogs.

"During the last six-12 months it appears that the wording in the KC GSD breed Standard regarding coat type has now taken on a new meaning – ‘no hard and fast rule for length of hair’.

"Among GSD judges there is now confusion as to the KC Standard and the interpretation of judging of long coats. Both the SV (German Shepherd Dog Association of Germany) and the Fédération Cynologique Internationale consider that there are two varieties of GSD, and both organisations have adopted the policy that longcoats may only be exhibited in their own separate long coat classes. They are not permitted in standard coat classes.




Clear guidance

"Many judges and stalwarts of the breed believe that the current wording regarding coat length in the Standard is very confusing. It is now open to the judges’ interpretation and I believe will continue to be so until it is fully sorted out by the breed council and the KC with subsequent very clear guidance for judges.

"I fully intend to judge to the Standard and I will take advice and direction from the KC on this particular aspect of their Standard. I have this morning contacted the KC seeking advice… stating my concerns and asking for advice regarding longcoats, and colours such as blues, browns and whites, to clarify the KC’s current position of these within the Standard. I also intended to judge them on their conformation, soundness etc and place them on their merit.

"Over the past few months at least four breed clubs have held championship shows and have scheduled special longcoat classes – perhaps you committee could consider this in future?

"I hope that you can understand the reasoning behind my comments although in hindsight they were ill placed and I apologise unreservedly for causing yourselves any concern.”

On July 3 Miss Carradice was told she would no longer be judging. Ms Harrison wrote: "It was noted by the Show Scheduling Committee that you did apologise for making the inappropriate comments, but they feel very strongly and disappointed that they were posted in the first instance.

"Based on this I advise that the decision has been made to withdraw your appointment for the above show. We have advised the KC of this decision.”

This week Miss Carradice told DOG WORLD that people felt very strongly about longcoat GSDs, but that she had written the comments some months ago, had referred to no dogs or owners by name and had not referred to her SKC appointment at all apart from saying she would be judging later in the year.

The people who run the closed online group were unhappy that the comments had been extracted and sent to the SKC, she said.

"My last post was on May 14 which attracted about 400 comments – I would say 98 per cent agreed with my comments,” she said. "The KC Standard is a grey area but it is a subject which provokes strong response.

"I phoned Beth Harrison and said I was disappointed with the club’s decision and asking whether I could appeal against it. But she said it was too late and that the appointment had already been rescinded.

"I agree now I perhaps should not have said it but the reasons I did were obvious. What I should have done is judge the dogs and if there were any long coats I would have withheld.

"After I made it known I was no longer judging people bombarded the SKC with phone calls, some of them from people demanding their money back. Some of the people who entered under me would have booked hotels and spent a lot of money taking part in the show. If a judge has to be replaced because they’re ill that’s one thing, but this was a decision on the SKC’s part to stop me judging – that was why people were asking for refunds.

"I understand that I had attracted quite a good entry so far – I’ve been in the breed for 30 years, haven’t judged for a long time and people know I don’t come from any particular camp.”

Ms Harrison said the club’s scheduling committee had withdrawn Miss Carradice’s appointment after discussing ‘all the information to hand’.

"The SKC is extremely disappointed that Miss Carradice did not act in the expected manner of a championship show judge,” she said. "The KC code of practice for judges states that they ‘should conduct themselves in a manner compatible with the standing of a judge at all times’.

"Taking this into account and also as this was not the first instance that Miss Carradice had been contacted regarding her conduct on social media; the committee stands by its decision to withdraw the appointment.”

Miss Carradice said that two and a half years ago she had written a comment to friends on Facebook which had been reported to the KC.




Social media

"It was a joke between friends which was not nasty but someone took offence,” she said. "The KC wrote to me and warned me to be aware of what I was writing on social media.

"The comment was nothing to do with longcoats and I assumed had nothing to do with the SKC’s decision as it was not mentioned in the letters to me from Ms Harrison. And the KC approved my judging appointment at SKC after the first comment had been made and the matter dealt with.

"I’ve sent a letter to the KC reporting the SKC for withdrawing my appointment.”

KC secretary Caroline Kisko said: "Currently, this matter lies between Miss Carradice and the SKC, and we will only look into it in more detail if it is referred to us – at which time the matter would most likely be considered by the Show Executive Sub-Committee as it is a regulatory issue.”

At SKC, GSDs will now be judged by Fiona Anderson-Worrall (Amulree).

The GSD Standard reads ‘Outer coat consisting of straight, hard, close-lying hair as dense as possible; thick undercoat. Hair on head, ears, front of legs, paws and toes short; on back, longer and thicker; in some males forming slight ruff. Hair longer on back of legs as far down as pasterns and stifles and forming fairly thick trousers on hindquarters. No hard and fast rule for length of hair; mole-type coats undesirable.’ "

Interesting .............

Apart from the ethics regarding a judge's stated preference, I'd be interested to learn what other people, more involved with GSDs, think. Should the breed be split into two types?

There's a huge difference of opinion in the GSD world. There are those that feel the length of coat should be secondary to its texture & whether it has an undercoat. Then there are those who feel a GSD is a short coated breed & ling coats shouldn't be shown. Lastly there are those who accept the long coat as ok (providing there is a proper undercoat) but want them shown seperately (like the Belgian Shepherds). Very few want to split the breed.

I don't know much (or anything, really) about GSD showing, so I can only give my uneducated opinion. I think that standards change over the years and that a dog should be judged on its overall confirmation. If long coats are specifically stated as undesirable in the standard, then I can see her point, but it doesn't look like they are. She probably should have been more careful about what she said. After all, a judge is supposed to be as unbiased as possible.

I think I remember something about controversy regarding splitting the breed.

The controversy over the split was due to 'types' rather than coat length. For example American Show Lines, English Show Lines, German Show Lines, Working Lines (Eastern European & German), pet lines to name just a few.

The argument against was that the GSD is the breed, and anyone trying to breed away from the standard of the originating country is doing so wrongly.

I'm speaking from ignorance here (as you've no doubt guessed!), not being overly involved with GSDs.

From the time I was young until about - oh, '70s, '80s?, the Alsations (as they were then called) that I saw were short coated.

Nowadays, around my area anyway, I only see pet GSDs (apart from the very occasional police dog, which is short coated), and these pet dogs are long coated.

What puzzles me is where the long coat comes from, all of a sudden.

The long coat has always been there, but in smaller numbers. As soon as someone sees a 'market' for something unusual the numbers will increase.

When I helped to run a dog training club in the late 70s (Hammersmith Dog Training Club - it's still there, but with all new trainers!) there was a lady with a long coated GSD called Sunny. In those days the long coats were called German Shepherd dogs & the short coats were called Alsatians! Same breed, of course, just human ignorance.  

OK, thanks Caryll. So basically the long coat is a throwback to the mists of time and bred on through increasing popularity. They are certainly magnificent looking dogs.

The dog underneath the coat is what matters of course. I was just wondering, bearing in mind the splitting of other breeds eg Rough Collie and Smooth Collie.

The only thing you have to watch out for in long coats is they should still have a dense undercoat, which not all of them have.

Unfortunately I have not been able to get close enough to any of these dogs to judge their undercoats - they are without exception anti-me/anti-Kuchar so I only see them at a distance. They look woolly enough though, and one white bitch in particular looks stunning and moves perfectly.

White isn't an acceptable colour for a GSD, but you're seeing more & more of them.

As in all breeds, you have breeders who only breed for colour.

GSD's come in 3 coat types: Stock coat (short with undercoat)
Long stock coat (long guard hairs with undercoat)
Long coat (undesirable as they have no undercoat)
You will usually see the hair fall down the back with a part along the back if they have no undercoat.

We can probably get into lengthy discussions on standards but IMVAO as a judge you have to follow the standard and not personal bias. She has in detail described her bias and how she 'judges' that's not how it's supposed to work.
Judging is a checklist and the dog with all correct checks is supposed to win.

You're right, Theresa. A judge must know the standard & judge according to that, not their own personal bias.

I know from my aunt showing her Boxers: She would not enter if certain judges were scheduled because she knew she wouldn't win or even stand a chance. The show world is pretty small and there is so much corruption in it as well.

There are corrupt judges, more in some breeds than others. Faces either fit or they don't - and if yours doesn't your dog won't win even if it's darn near perfect!

But you can't go mouthing off on facebook about how a certain (allowable) type of dog will be left cardless no matter what!

Plus she's a stupid, ninny cow! What does she know, the long coats are the most beautiful   have the best personalities  and tend to be healthier  in my very unprofessional opinion   

From an aesthetic point of view, I love the long coats. More to snuggle against!

Shisa wrote:Plus she's a stupid, ninny cow! What does she know, the long coats are the most beautiful   have the best personalities  and tend to be healthier  in my very unprofessional opinion   

Your opinion sounds very professional to me!

It might be a good idea to split the GSDs into 2 classes by coat. If the majority of judges are of the same mind then splitting them will give the LC a fair chance to prove themself.
It's going to take a while for the world to accept them back as a desirable.

Lots of breeds have split for showing according to coat type so I can't understand (speaking as a bystander) why GSDs won't do it.

As for desirable, as pet/companion dogs the long-coat seems to have won hands down. I very rarely see a short-coat GSD these days, except in the Services.