Plan to save Dartmoor ponies is to 'eat them'

http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/food-and-drink/news/how-to-save-dartmoors-hill-ponies-eat-them-says-animal-conservation-group-9754347.html

What do people think of this?

I think its a great idea! They are currently worthless, as they are not a very large breed so stuck to kids riding them and they make great riding ponies but need a good rider they're not for the riding school. If we don't do something, they will die out.

So save them by butchering them, is what they're suggesting? If they're going to ok this you'll have to ok all horses being butchered.

I agree that something needs to be done, but I wouldn't go so far as to say they're worthless! I'm sure they have uses outside of human interaction!

I don't really like the way the charity is thinking about it. Basically saying, if they aren't useful for humans, there's no point having them. They're also talking about the consumption of wild-living animals. To properly ensure that there is no contamination, they would need to remove them from the wild.

Also, whether people like it or not, they are thought of very fondly. People gasp in horror when they hear about dogs being consumed as food and it's very much the same with horses!

I think the difference is that dogs are not the same as horses. To me animals that eat grass and grains are animals that are naturally there for food - way of the world. The meat eaters are not, and very rarely will any animal kill and eat another meat eater. Thats why i don't agree with dogs being eaten, its not natural.

Well, I'd say that depends entirely on nature, evolution (if you believe in it) and adaptation. After all, by that logic, Dartmoor ponies have no natural predators, so they're not there for food. Perhaps hundreds of years ago they would have been, but that can't really be applied to today's situation.

The carnivores with no natural predators are the apex predators. All other predators will have an animal above them in the food chain. Seals, for instance, are incredible predators, but they are still prey to polar bears and orcas. Similarly, cougars will also prey on fellow carnivores.

Dogs couldn't really be included at all in these groups, as their domesticated state makes them unnatural, but technically they would not be apex predators and would most likely be predated in the wild.

Although I disagree, I hope you don't think I'm trying to stir up trouble! I just love a good debate!

In pure biological basics, omnivores (eg humans) don't eat carnivores. So, apart from all other considerations, most humans would find it abhorrent to eat cats or dogs.

Horses, being herbivores, are a biologically legitimate food source for omnivores. However, over the centuries and for many reasons - as riding/transport, racing, haulage animals, as well as being the recipients of human affection as cattle, sheep and pigs are generally not - rendered horses and ponies as an unacceptable and abhorrent foodstuff for many people, in the British Isles at least.

So, I don't think that we Brits will be converted to eating Dartmoor ponies to save the breed overnight, if ever.

I'll stop now as I could go on forever on the subject, but I will just finish by saying that Hayley is unfortunately correct - our native breeds whether Dartmoor, New Forest or others, when caught up from the moors are sold at dog-meat prices and this is where they end up - in tins of Chappie.

There are some omnivores which will eat carnivores, although I agree that there aren't many. Certain bears, birds, etc.. I'm not sure that the diet of humans could really be applied, though, considering how far removed we are from nature.

And that's all very well, but I don't see how they have arrived at an ultimate and final solution without exhausting other options - which they've even admitted to. It doesn't seem to be the best solution to the problem, when others have been pitched by other charities.

Yes there are always exceptions to the rule Eleanor! You and I know who they are and I'll say no more.

I wish I had an answer to preserving our native "wild-living" pony breeds - they are already being sold as cat and dog meat, so I can't see that promoting them as human food is going to help them at all.

I think they should just be very careful about the president they're setting. If this is allowed, the next similar situation can't be disallowed.
That'll mean dogs, chimpanzees or whatever. The rules have then been changed and can be manipulated to suit any situation.

And humans have through antiquity eaten bear, wolf, cougar etc... We're indiscriminate opportunists and only our social values curb our tastes now.

I just have the feeling that a lot of the primary supporters (nobody here, of course ) are supporting it simply because they would benefit financially from it.

I also agree with Theresa - if you scribble out one line, people will just want to scribble out more.

I would also be very concerned about the welfare of the animals. Beef cattle are bred for food and fit very well into a farm life, which can mostly ensure their good health and lack of contamination. A wild-living pony would have to be contained similarly in order to prevent contamination, which could prove very stressful for the animal.

Eleanor wrote:Well, I'd say that depends entirely on nature, evolution (if you believe in it) and adaptation. After all, by that logic, Dartmoor ponies have no natural predators, so they're not there for food. Perhaps hundreds of years ago they would have been, but that can't really be applied to today's situation.

The carnivores with no natural predators are the apex predators. All other predators will have an animal above them in the food chain. Seals, for instance, are incredible predators, but they are still prey to polar bears and orcas. Similarly, cougars will also prey on fellow carnivores.

Dogs couldn't really be included at all in these groups, as their domesticated state makes them unnatural, but technically they would not be apex predators and would most likely be predated in the wild.

Although I disagree, I hope you don't think I'm trying to stir up trouble! I just love a good debate!

So do i, debate away!

As for the ponies not being natural prey, foxes eat foals as do dogs and there are even a few wolves roaming now that could potentially get down there. The ocean is a totally different environment, they can't be compared to the land and its ecosystems so not in my view part of this debate. dogs are unnatural i agree, but they if left alone would very easily turn back into wild animals and survive well (depending on the breed of course..im talking the likes of a old type of dog, one that still has most of its wolf like characteristics. cant see a pug bringing down a horse lol)

As for containing it to prevent contamination, how so? What is out there that would make them uneatable?

Great!

They still aren't a primary food source, though. A fox would have to be extremely hungry to attempt to pick off a foal, and even then probably wouldn't succeed. It's often included in parts of Dartmoor Pony information pages that they have no natural predators. As far as I'm aware, there have been no documented wolf attacks on Dartmoor Ponies.

Yes, the ocean is different, but the same goes for every type of environment. In this current environment in the UK, ponies have no natural predators. However, I don't really feel that the big issue is whether or not we are able to eat the ponies, but rather whether or not it is the best thing to do.

Even feral dogs, left to breed for decades in the wild, have not reverted back to wild forms. They remain by human settlements and have high mortality rates. And no, I don't see a pug bringing down a horse either!

The habitat of Dartmoor Ponies is huge. It would be impossible to properly maintain the area to a standard where the food would be fit for human consumption. Pollution would most likely be a major problem. On a farm, you can control the spread of disease and/or illness and spot potential problems very quickly; in the wild, this would be extremely difficult. In the past, farming of wild animals has proved problematic.

There's also the problem of legislation. We are still developing legislation to protect our existing farm animals. By the time legislation is developed to properly ensure that welfare standards for the ponies are maintained, it will most likely be too late to help them. Almost all equine medical treatment is unfit for human consumption, which would further increase the time it would take to pass legislation.

Also the ponies have to be wormed, kept healthy, free of disease etc etc etc... like on any farm before they can be slaughtered. Who is going to ensure that's done?

On the farm I live on the farmer raises cattle and sheep for slaughter and it's hard work. They have to be managed daily to make sure they're picking up weight, any cuts or bruises fixed up, any ailments treated, males of a certain aged removed.

It's not just let them run, catch them and off to the abattoir.

I can't think that it's going to be an answer to saving the ponies.

There's that, as well, yes. It's just not practical to carry out such health procedures without violating welfare laws.

I'm siding more on the side of castration and conservation. If culling for whatever reason is necessary, it would be far more beneficial to donate the carcasses to conservation and protection areas for animals such as lions. Ungulates are ideal prey and this prevents wastage. Let's face it - we don't need more meat choices. We have such a wide selection already that it would barely make an impact. Donating the ponies to places dedicated to conservation would greatly help to reduce costs, so that they can use the money which would have gone towards food for other things.