Question

Please give your opinion on the following:

Dog whisperers' (not Ceasar) dogs kill new pack member after week. Then comes to light they have killed a few other 'difficult' dogs said behaviourist has taken in from owners not being able to 'cope' anymore...

Consider it a hypothetical question.

Wouldn't like to comment without knowing the full facts, but on the face of it, it seems to confirm my dislike of 'pack leader' theories!

Let me add that this person uses this pack to rehabilitate problem dogs.
This person also sets themself up as the only expert in dog behaviour in certain surrounds.
The dog killed was actually a very sweet, if slightly frustrated due to lack of exercise. Also not an aggressive breed or ever shown any aggression. The person left the dogs together in the backyard and left. Came home hours later to the dead dog. As I said not the first time this has happened either.

Unfortunately I can't give all the specifics.Would you take your dog to a behaviourist if you knew this? Do you consider this person a behaviourist?

Shisa wrote:
Would you take your dog to a behaviourist if you knew this? Do you consider this person a behaviourist?

No, NO!!!!

From what you've said, I wouldn't trust them with my dog or call them a behaviourist. That isn't anything against them personally, as for all I know, they might have the dogs' best interests at heart and didn't mean for it to happen.

However, even a basic understanding of canine behaviour should tell you not to leave a group of dogs, with an already-formed hierarchy, unaccompanied with a new dog.

It sounds like this person perhaps has an inflated sense of their own expertise. Does the person have qualifications or is it something he or she has learned from observation?

No, I wouldn't take my dog to him, and I don't consider him a behaviourist!

IMO.... hierarchy is not formed in a week. Far longer is needed along with training, socialization, learning tolerance, etc to accept a new member.

I would not consider this person a behaviourist from what you have said.

It is not wise to call yourself an expert under most circumstances, especially if your dogs have killed. From what you say it appears this behaviourist's dogs could benifit from some socialization themselves!  
I wouldn't let him/her near my guys.

Ps. Why cant you say who it is?

Eleanor wrote:It sounds like this person perhaps has an inflated sense of their own expertise.

That hit it right on the nail IMO.

They did a course but had no prior practical experience, they're gaining their practical experience now after styling themself as a 'Whisperer'.
They also charge a quite exorbitant price for a session.

I can't even think on it and I want to burst a vein in my head from pure frustration and helplessness. They're probably not doing anything wrong BUT it is completely wrong.

Tracy it's all political. I don't want anymore issues from the person. They're a total a$$hole!

Ahhhhhh, I think I read you loud and clear!

I hope no-one else with a problem dog leaves it with this "whisperer", knowing that it will be left unsupervised with a pack of dogs who have killed other dogs.

On the plus side - you no longer have a problem dog. On the minus side - you no longer have a dog.

Shisa wrote:

Eleanor wrote:It sounds like this person perhaps has an inflated sense of their own expertise.

That hit it right on the nail IMO.

They did a course but had no prior practical experience, they're gaining their practical experience now after styling themself as a 'Whisperer'.
They also charge a quite exorbitant price for a session.

I can't even think on it and I want to burst a vein in my head from pure frustration and helplessness. They're probably not doing anything wrong BUT it is completely wrong.

Tracy it's all political. I don't want anymore issues from the person. They're a total a$$hole!

Oh dear. I've done a course too! Can I be a dog whisperer/expert?

All the courses in the world can't make up for a lack of common sense or real experience. To be an expert, in my opinion, you need to have spent a considerable amount of time researching your area of interest in some way. Qualifications are great, but they need to be followed by plenty of work in the field. Not just getting a pack of dogs and trying out methods from the Internet.

Also, I think people need to be very careful when gaining experience. If they're just learning on their own, through simple observation, it's going to take years to be able to call themselves experts. That's why I think the best way to do it is to work your way up, learning from people who've been there and done that.

This is the thing I find most disturbing. A few years ago we had a lady come to our school for a few weeks for practical experience. She had done a puppy training course through Hills or Royal Canin and was opening her own puppy school.
The 2/3 days she spent with us is her total dog training experience. She didn't even own a dog.
These days it's just to easy to call yourself a dog whisperer or expert.

IMO... courses don't count for diddly squat!

Life/dog experience is the best teacher you will ever find!
She didnt even own a dog? ....get the fruit away from me....
Reading is one thing,  doing is quite another.

We have a saying here...
Those that can do, do!
Those that can't, teach!

I think courses have their place, depending on which qualification you receive from it. A quick, week-long course, with no other experience, is just not enough. I'm a firm believer that you need a balance of theoretical and practical experience to be able to call yourself a professional.

We have that saying, as well! Although I wouldn't say that to university professors!

George Bernard Shaw said that, and my Grandmother and mother, both lifelong teachers, hated him for it!

No way I would use someone like that. It's shocking how easily someone can set themselves up as a behaviourist, I thought there would be a lot of training and years of practical experience needed. Why on earth would anyone leave a possible problem dog, or any dog they don't know completely, unsupervised with a pack   

Eleanor wrote:I think courses have their place, depending on which qualification you receive from it. A quick, week-long course, with no other experience, is just not enough. I'm a firm believer that you need a balance of theoretical and practical experience to be able to call yourself a professional.

I agree - courses can build the foundation and knowledge, then practical experience comes into its own. Professional just means that you are paid to do it - it doesn't say anything about how good, or otherwise, you are.

Bit of a controversial saying, isn't it?

I wanted to become a canine behaviourist at one point, until I spoke to a 'behaviourist' about how he became one. He went on a course. No mention of practical experience. This was the same 'behaviourist' who thought it was okay to have training classes with 30+ dogs, in a hall only big enough for 10.

Also thought it was acceptable to yank a very young Border Collie puppy, suffering from separation anxiety, away from her owner, while she screamed her head off. Poor pup was in a noisy room full of strange, bouncy dogs and was forcibly hauled across the hall by a stranger.

Exactly! I'm hoping to become a small animal hydrotherapist. Will be starting a science-based Applied Animals Studies course this September, before I go onto a course in hydrotherapy. Then it'll be off to work in a hydrotherapy clinic, probably starting from the bottom and working my way up until I've gained enough experience.

Lynda....
I say it to my bro in law as he's a teacher & its fun just to rib him. I say to him... if you teachers are so good.... how come children today are unable to spell or do long division, what's 8 x 9? They couldn't do either without a calculator?  (But I am a slight stirrer)
My neighbour is a special ed teacher & my OHs bro is a uni lecturer

One of my cousins is a trainer/ behaviourist.  But he has spent 25 odd yrs, both in courses & hands on (practical) with both his numerous dogs , other behaviourist's, owners & other peoples dogs.

It is fun to stir the pot, isn't it?

See, that's what I call a behaviourist! Proper experience, instead of a few weeks. Even a few years often isn't enough to call yourself an expert at a subject.

I must admit... I am a complete antagonizer. I find fun in ruffling his feathers.   (& he's easy bait) If you open the door I cant help but walk in.   

Even my cousin does not claim to be an expert. He just does the best he can to sort out a problem for you & your dog. Though, I will blow his horn. His 1st dog, a GSD, when he said stay, not one of us in the family could get him to move... treats, callong him, yelling, excitement, fusses, nothing! ....that dog never lifted his bum!

Ah, but the true experts don't call themselves experts, as they know there's always something more to learn!

True that! That is his philosophy. There are no experts.... Someone always knows something you don't.

Makes the world a far more interesting place!

Wish I had a pic of Prince. He was a beautiful GSD. I remember one day we took him to pick up my cousin from a camping trip. My sister, his brother, my aunty..... Prince jumped out of the car window when he saw his owner.  Not one of us could see my cousin,  nor stop Prince from getting out the window & running through the bush to his master.   He ran like the wind & instantly sat infront of his dad.

I'm here dad..... what now? Where you been? Why weren't you home at 5.02pm yesterday? Tail wagging, tongue out, paws up.... just say the word dad!

Then my cousin said... ok, "fusses" Prince jumped up into his arms   & both were on the ground with the dog licking, paws, hands & legs everywhere, tail wagging, laughter, doggie talk, as he kissed his owner to to the point of near suffocation!   

Prince was so happy to see him, he nearly climbed inside his dad!